Comments on: Pre-Monday Mahler http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/ A beginners guide to classical music, by someone who switched at 23 Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:03:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dennis http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2283 Dennis Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:27:37 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2283 I would avoid Bernstein's Mahler, since you were already averse to Mahler because of his perceived "romanticism" (a tag I find odd for a composer so admired by modernists like Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Maderna, and Boulez, to name just a few). Bernstein tends to exaggerate any aspect of Mahler that plays into that "romanticism" label (in fact his recordings of mahler are probably a big reason for the "romanticism" perception). Certainly there are aspects of Mahler that are tinged with romanticism, but of a kind transformed by his simultaneous "modernism". Worse, however, is that Bernstein has also taken the occasionaly liberty, both in live perfomances and on his recordings to add notes to Mahler's scores where he wants to inflate the emotionalistic impact (adding extra percussion to the Finale of the First Symphony, for example). This is just plain unacceptable. If you want more reliable interpretations, unblemished by Bernstein's histrionic personality, there is a plethora of good conductors to choose from. Here are a few I would recommend for each symphony (not necessarily in rank order, just some of my fave conductors for each symphony): 1st: Kubelik, Boulez, Gielen 2nd: Klemperer, Boulez, Abbado 3rd: Haitink, Chailly 4th: Haitink, Abbado, Szell 5th: Barbirolli, Gielen, Barshai, Chailly 6th: Barbirolli, Boulez, Abbado, Gielen 7th: Gielen, Tilson-Thomas, Abbado 8th: Gielen, Solti, Boulez 9th: Barbirolli, Klemperer, Abbado, Haitink, Boulez, Gielen, Chailly 10th (Cooke performing edition): Gielen, Rattle, Barshai, Sanderling Das Lied von der Erde: Walter, Klemperer, Horenstein, Boulez, I would avoid Bernstein’s Mahler, since you were already averse to Mahler because of his perceived “romanticism” (a tag I find odd for a composer so admired by modernists like Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Maderna, and Boulez, to name just a few). Bernstein tends to exaggerate any aspect of Mahler that plays into that “romanticism” label (in fact his recordings of mahler are probably a big reason for the “romanticism” perception). Certainly there are aspects of Mahler that are tinged with romanticism, but of a kind transformed by his simultaneous “modernism”. Worse, however, is that Bernstein has also taken the occasionaly liberty, both in live perfomances and on his recordings to add notes to Mahler’s scores where he wants to inflate the emotionalistic impact (adding extra percussion to the Finale of the First Symphony, for example). This is just plain unacceptable.

If you want more reliable interpretations, unblemished by Bernstein’s histrionic personality, there is a plethora of good conductors to choose from. Here are a few I would recommend for each symphony (not necessarily in rank order, just some of my fave conductors for each symphony):

1st: Kubelik, Boulez, Gielen
2nd: Klemperer, Boulez, Abbado
3rd: Haitink, Chailly
4th: Haitink, Abbado, Szell
5th: Barbirolli, Gielen, Barshai, Chailly
6th: Barbirolli, Boulez, Abbado, Gielen
7th: Gielen, Tilson-Thomas, Abbado
8th: Gielen, Solti, Boulez
9th: Barbirolli, Klemperer, Abbado, Haitink, Boulez, Gielen, Chailly
10th (Cooke performing edition): Gielen, Rattle, Barshai, Sanderling
Das Lied von der Erde: Walter, Klemperer, Horenstein, Boulez,

]]> By: Alek http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2275 Alek Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:53:04 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2275 For help with the Shostakovitch -> Mahler transition, get the Bernstein recording of Mahler 9. The last movement should do the trick. If not that, then the middle two will resonate with the Shostakovitch dance movements. For help with the Shostakovitch -> Mahler transition, get the Bernstein recording of Mahler 9. The last movement should do the trick. If not that, then the middle two will resonate with the Shostakovitch dance movements.

]]> By: Ben http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2274 Ben Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:58:24 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2274 <p>Hi everyone,</p> <p>Thanks for all the great comments! It seems like Mahler is a favorite composer of many of you; seems like it's well about time I got into him myself. I shall definitely keep you updated on how the listening goes...</p> <p>Ben</p> Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the great comments! It seems like Mahler is a favorite composer of many of you; seems like it’s well about time I got into him myself. I shall definitely keep you updated on how the listening goes…

Ben

]]> By: JonJ http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2273 JonJ Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:21:19 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2273 There is romanticism in GM for sure, but what is characteristic of him is the irony and sheer intelligence, which people who hate romanticism might like. But if you don't like emotion flooding out of your music, you probably won't go for him. He was also able to sneak in a protest against such things as anti-Semitism now and then. One of my favorite things about him is in the slow movement of the first symphony, the Frere Jacques theme played by nasty-sounding basses. This might not mean much to you until you learn (something that I only found out about relatively recently) that that song was originally an anti-Semitic one. "Brother Jacob," the story goes, was sleeping while the bells rang because he was a Jew, sleeping in on Sunday morning while all the good Christian folks were summoned to church by the bells. No wonder Mahler satirizes the song, and follows it with very klezmer-sounding music. There is romanticism in GM for sure, but what is characteristic of him is the irony and sheer intelligence, which people who hate romanticism might like. But if you don’t like emotion flooding out of your music, you probably won’t go for him.

He was also able to sneak in a protest against such things as anti-Semitism now and then. One of my favorite things about him is in the slow movement of the first symphony, the Frere Jacques theme played by nasty-sounding basses. This might not mean much to you until you learn (something that I only found out about relatively recently) that that song was originally an anti-Semitic one. “Brother Jacob,” the story goes, was sleeping while the bells rang because he was a Jew, sleeping in on Sunday morning while all the good Christian folks were summoned to church by the bells. No wonder Mahler satirizes the song, and follows it with very klezmer-sounding music.

]]> By: Maria http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2272 Maria Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:08:30 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2272 Mahler was one of the first major composers I listened to. I have yet to find the money for the complete symphonies, but I love the 2nd. See it live, for sure. When I saw the 2nd live I had a headache going into the 5th movement. It is intense music. But it is also beautiful. The 4th movement of that same symphony is lovely. It would be hard to chose between Mahler's 2nd and Beethoven's 9th if I needed a "favorite symphony". Mahler was one of the first major composers I listened to. I have yet to find the money for the complete symphonies, but I love the 2nd.

See it live, for sure. When I saw the 2nd live I had a headache going into the 5th movement. It is intense music. But it is also beautiful. The 4th movement of that same symphony is lovely.

It would be hard to chose between Mahler’s 2nd and Beethoven’s 9th if I needed a “favorite symphony”.

]]> By: Zoltan http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2269 Zoltan Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:51:42 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2269 I came to Shosti through Mahler, so you might show that it's very much possible the other way around too. (then again, I'm a romantic at heart) Take your time though. I know I needed it (and still need it) for Shosti. I came to Shosti through Mahler, so you might show that it’s very much possible the other way around too.

(then again, I’m a romantic at heart)

Take your time though. I know I needed it (and still need it) for Shosti.

]]> By: Miss Mussel http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/comment-page-1/#comment-2266 Miss Mussel Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:18:16 +0000 http://classicalconvert.com/2008/01/pre-monday-mahler/#comment-2266 I'm so excited that you've decided to give Mahler another chance. I found it completely overwhelming the first time I heard a complete symphony (5, I think) but now, I can't live without it. It's the intricacies that make up the mammoth whole that make it so great for me. I love No.4 and No.2 and....well, ok, all the others too. Can't wait to hear more of what you think. If at all possible, go hear a live concert. The way the piece takes you in can't really be replicated on CD, even with a supergood stereo. I’m so excited that you’ve decided to give Mahler another chance. I found it completely overwhelming the first time I heard a complete symphony (5, I think) but now, I can’t live without it.

It’s the intricacies that make up the mammoth whole that make it so great for me. I love No.4 and No.2 and….well, ok, all the others too.

Can’t wait to hear more of what you think. If at all possible, go hear a live concert. The way the piece takes you in can’t really be replicated on CD, even with a supergood stereo.

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