I remember seeing that one a while back, I just watched it through again nonetheless, and it’s still funny

Nice! That strong similarity in the video between the flute and piano when you give them the same dynamics is what I was getting at with my statements that the range of timbres in the orchestra is more limited. I suspect the fact that acoustic instruments produce sounds by exciting natural modes of vibration forces them to share a lot more timbre characteristics than digital instruments, which have all kinds of crazy transforms applied to them. I’m starting to get mathsy about this though. I’ll restrain myself.

R.A.D. Stainforth,

I absolutely agree. That’s why I see classical music as “open source”, since it is the set of instructions (and hence the guy who wrote the set of instructions) to produce the music which is the celebrated aspect. It’s up to other people to actually turn those instructions into a performance. In pop and rock it’s basically impossible to replicate a piece accurately once the original performer stops performing it. It’s not the same song anymore. Different interpretations of a piece in the rock/pop/etc world differ a lot more dramatically than in the classical one, to the extent that it isn’t really the same piece. I suppose that is because (with a few exceptions) no-one dares to mess with the notes of, for example, a Beethoven symphony. I actually think that’s a shame, and perhaps that’s one reason that re-orchestrations are so appealing to me; it’s one of the rare times that you can hear a genuinely radical (well, comparatively) re-interpretation of an established classical piece.

It’s funny how melodies become so biased purely due to their association with a performer. Sometimes I get worried that the only reason I dislike cheesy pop songs is because I know they are cheesy pop songs, and I’m not giving the musical content a fair shake. not too worried though.

I’d love to hear Beethoven doing “Whole Lotta Love”. Or hell, “Oops… I Did It Again”. Now that would be a well attended concert.

Or have I got that wrong?

I often wonder if I would enjoy Gil Evans’s Little Wing if it didn’t always drive me back to the Jimi Hendrix original which I consider to be the ‘real thing’ even though I usually enjoy Gil Evans’ own work. Or, to take a negative example, would I like John Coltrane’s My Favourite Things or Miles Davis’s Time after Time more if they didn’t remind of originals that I don’t particularly like. I often wonder (in very idle moments, admittedly) what Beethoven would have made of the main theme of, say, Whole Lotta Love. Would he have turned it into a magnificent symphony or string quartet or would any attempt to do anything with it send me scurrying for my Led Zep II?

Pierre Schaeffer, a French sound technician/composer experimented with electronics, sounds & accoustics in the 1950’s. Here’s a link to part of his ‘Solfege de l’objects sonors’ on youtube, which features a sample of a piano/flute synthesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZDRlpAr6Hs&NR=1

More info here: http://againstthemodernworld.blogspot.com/2007/11/case-study-pierre-schaeffer.html

You certainly have a knack for opening cans of worms, first 4′33″ and now timbre; once every while, a bunch of musicologist, linguists or scientists start a religious war over what timbre means, and what it does not

You can find more exotic use in timbre in composers such as Varese, Reich, Xenakis or Carter (especially their percussion pieces, but hey, I’m prejudiced :-). Someone who completely redefined the use of the singing voice (at least, in my ears) is Meredith Monk; take everything that you can do with your voice, plus everything you deem impossible, and that pretty much sums up her music.

And there’s a whole bunch of composers who take instruments and put them to a completely new use, such as Alvin Lucier, but that’s another story I guess. I mean, he apparently wrote pieces for amplified brainwaves. And of course, John Cage, who wrote a lot for prepared piano.

Which reminds me, some scientists have researched timbre and sound characteristics of instruments by combining the onset/attack of one instrument with the nucleus/tone of another (e.g. piano attack with violin tone). I’ve got a bookmark somewhere, can’t find it right now.

Yeah… it’s not just “classical” which sucks as a descriptive term, but “pop” and “rock” are also pretty terrible. In fact the whole genrefication of music is pretty lame. Oh well.

I suppose when describing rock/pop as the timbre king, I am really referring to pop, as opposed to the two guitar/one drumset combo. I agree that particular configuration more sonically limited than an orchestra… although the significant presence of the drums can make it feel a lot more contrasty than it is (which is related to your comment about the percussion section). What I am really referring to is the huge use of synthesized sounds in lots of non-classical stuff (which I guess unfortunately ends up being labelled as “pop”). There are an enormously greater number of “instruments” which can be — and are — created digitally than there are instruments in an orchestra.

The increased use of percussion and variation in timbre is one of the reasons I strongly prefer 20th century “classical” (eugh), but I’m curious as to how far this has progressed. Any modern composer suggestions?

I hadn’t noticed the film scores using effects as you mentioned, I’ll keep my ears open wider next time I see them. Still… maybe I’m being snobbish… but film scores don’t do it for me in the same way that an independent pieces of music does. Perhaps because they are generally designed to shoehorn around the movie, instead of unfolding in their own way.

Your first (particularly the electro-acoustic bit) and third points I’d be interested in hearing examples of. Please do send me a link!

Andy,

I was thinking about your comment on the way to work today and realized that the reason I don’t see it like that is because almost all of the non-classical stuff I listen to is not played by the typical garage-band group setup (i.e., the two guitars and drums dealie), but is instead heavy on the electronics, sampling, etc. I think a a lot of the default top-40 pop people are exposed to is filled with blips and beeps and electronic effects so that’s what we get used to.

I agree that there is *way* more going on in a symphony, but it took me a while to work that out at first, a major reason being because I found it really hard to separate out all of the relatively similar sounding instruments.

Turangalila is a pretty awesome (literally) example of hardcore timbre changes… but it’s also been really hard for me to get into