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	<title>Comments on: The Benefit of No Opinions</title>
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	<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/</link>
	<description>A beginners guide to classical music, by someone who switched at 23</description>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-14708</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-14708</guid>
		<description>You know, one day I might write a blog post about how I have suddenly discovered I like Rachmaninoff. however, I suspect that&#039;s gonna be a long time coming :)

I&#039;m actually not a huge Mozart fan either...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, one day I might write a blog post about how I have suddenly discovered I like Rachmaninoff. however, I suspect that&#8217;s gonna be a long time coming :)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually not a huge Mozart fan either&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zoltan</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-13106</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoltan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-13106</guid>
		<description>No worries Ben, we&#039;re all guilty: Did I mention that I don&#039;t listen to Mozart? ;)

Sibelius is good example of public opinion shift: a musical hero up into the 1950&#039;s (though, some detested him even then for his &quot;conservatism&quot;), then fell out of favor and he might be having a comeback now?

As for Rachmaninoff: You&#039;re right. Already in his lifetime some of his works weren&#039;t successful with the public or the critics (like the Third Symphony). Even today I read many times that the melodies and lush orchestration of the 2nd Symphony are &quot;just too much&quot;. At first they overwhelm the listener, I agree, but if one listens more often, better yet with score, you might discover the wonderful polyphony and see that there is indeed depth to Rachmaninoff&#039;s music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries Ben, we&#8217;re all guilty: Did I mention that I don&#8217;t listen to Mozart? ;)</p>
<p>Sibelius is good example of public opinion shift: a musical hero up into the 1950&#8242;s (though, some detested him even then for his &#8220;conservatism&#8221;), then fell out of favor and he might be having a comeback now?</p>
<p>As for Rachmaninoff: You&#8217;re right. Already in his lifetime some of his works weren&#8217;t successful with the public or the critics (like the Third Symphony). Even today I read many times that the melodies and lush orchestration of the 2nd Symphony are &#8220;just too much&#8221;. At first they overwhelm the listener, I agree, but if one listens more often, better yet with score, you might discover the wonderful polyphony and see that there is indeed depth to Rachmaninoff&#8217;s music.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-12660</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-12660</guid>
		<description>Haha :)

Yeah, I&#039;m guilty too. Although I (hope) I&#039;ve learned to try and make it clear that it&#039;s just my opinion when I write about composers I dislike...

I think it&#039;s particularly interesting when the consensus manages to shift dramatically over time as well. Like with Rachmaninoff: wasn&#039;t he basically dismissed at first? I think it&#039;s only recently that critics have announced that he is an acceptable choice of composer, according to their inflated sense of judgment.

And as you point out, within classical music it&#039;s bad enough, but between genres it gets way nastier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha :)</p>
<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m guilty too. Although I (hope) I&#8217;ve learned to try and make it clear that it&#8217;s just my opinion when I write about composers I dislike&#8230;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s particularly interesting when the consensus manages to shift dramatically over time as well. Like with Rachmaninoff: wasn&#8217;t he basically dismissed at first? I think it&#8217;s only recently that critics have announced that he is an acceptable choice of composer, according to their inflated sense of judgment.</p>
<p>And as you point out, within classical music it&#8217;s bad enough, but between genres it gets way nastier.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoltan</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-12036</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoltan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-12036</guid>
		<description>What was that?! How can you not like Rachmaninoff, Ben?! :P

On a more serious note:
The whole snobism becomes even more tiresome when you listen to mulitple genres of music and than have to defend their &quot;merit&quot;. Like, if you listen to and like film music: besides Korngold or Herrmann everything else is trash (even Shosty&#039;s film music is third-rate socialist propaganda!).

Or an even better example: the merits of rap music -- as I had the chance to witness such a discussion recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What was that?! How can you not like Rachmaninoff, Ben?! :P</p>
<p>On a more serious note:<br />
The whole snobism becomes even more tiresome when you listen to mulitple genres of music and than have to defend their &#8220;merit&#8221;. Like, if you listen to and like film music: besides Korngold or Herrmann everything else is trash (even Shosty&#8217;s film music is third-rate socialist propaganda!).</p>
<p>Or an even better example: the merits of rap music &#8212; as I had the chance to witness such a discussion recently.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-10966</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-10966</guid>
		<description>JonJ:

I&#039;m going to poke around on Amazon and laugh at people arguing over CDs now. It&#039;s kind of crazy how defensive people get at defending their personal opinions, particularly with music and film tastes...


Yvonne:

Interesting point... it must be sort of frustrating writing program notes if you actually have negative opinions of a piece/composer and have to try to avoid letting them spill in. However, as we both attest to, I guess they sometimes don&#039;t do a such good job at avoiding that. Unfortunately a little hint of condescension about a piece/composer you like really fires up ones outrage. Which I guess leads back to my comment to JonJ up there about overreacting to other peoples opinions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JonJ:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to poke around on Amazon and laugh at people arguing over CDs now. It&#8217;s kind of crazy how defensive people get at defending their personal opinions, particularly with music and film tastes&#8230;</p>
<p>Yvonne:</p>
<p>Interesting point&#8230; it must be sort of frustrating writing program notes if you actually have negative opinions of a piece/composer and have to try to avoid letting them spill in. However, as we both attest to, I guess they sometimes don&#8217;t do a such good job at avoiding that. Unfortunately a little hint of condescension about a piece/composer you like really fires up ones outrage. Which I guess leads back to my comment to JonJ up there about overreacting to other peoples opinions&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-9807</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-9807</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always slightly outraged and very disappointed by liner notes that are dismissive about the composer in question. Liner notes (and program notes) are a very specific kind of writing and their role – well one of their key roles – is to provide advocacy and justification for the music on offer in the recording or concert. Not lying about the composer&#039;s reputation, but always being the voice of the advocate. After all, if the notes say it&#039;s not really worth playing what are the musicians doing playing it for us?!

And therein lies the very particular art of the liner note writer.

There&#039;s absolutely a place for criticism and measured scholarship and for lively debate about the value or otherwise of composers, but liner notes need the voice of the advocate to dominate.

PS. I &lt;i&gt;love&lt;/i&gt; Mendelssohn and will never tire of listening to his masterpieces. Yes, not all his works are masterpieces, but that&#039;s not the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always slightly outraged and very disappointed by liner notes that are dismissive about the composer in question. Liner notes (and program notes) are a very specific kind of writing and their role – well one of their key roles – is to provide advocacy and justification for the music on offer in the recording or concert. Not lying about the composer&#8217;s reputation, but always being the voice of the advocate. After all, if the notes say it&#8217;s not really worth playing what are the musicians doing playing it for us?!</p>
<p>And therein lies the very particular art of the liner note writer.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s absolutely a place for criticism and measured scholarship and for lively debate about the value or otherwise of composers, but liner notes need the voice of the advocate to dominate.</p>
<p>PS. I <i>love</i> Mendelssohn and will never tire of listening to his masterpieces. Yes, not all his works are masterpieces, but that&#8217;s not the point.</p>
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		<title>By: JonJ</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-9533</link>
		<dc:creator>JonJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-9533</guid>
		<description>CM criticism which actually illuminates something for you about the music is worth paying attention to, but don&#039;t bother with the &quot;top 10&quot; or &quot;top 100&quot; lists. Most of them represent the consensus of CM fans over the decades and centuries (depending on when the composer lived, of course), but if your personal preferences are different, don&#039;t sweat it. You&#039;re not going to be given a test at the end of the course!

What is really amusing are the evaluations of performances the &quot;fans&quot; give, especially in the field of opera. The raging arguments on Amazon about this or that recording always leave me in stitches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CM criticism which actually illuminates something for you about the music is worth paying attention to, but don&#8217;t bother with the &#8220;top 10&#8243; or &#8220;top 100&#8243; lists. Most of them represent the consensus of CM fans over the decades and centuries (depending on when the composer lived, of course), but if your personal preferences are different, don&#8217;t sweat it. You&#8217;re not going to be given a test at the end of the course!</p>
<p>What is really amusing are the evaluations of performances the &#8220;fans&#8221; give, especially in the field of opera. The raging arguments on Amazon about this or that recording always leave me in stitches.</p>
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