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	<title>Comments on: The Benefit of No Opinions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/</link>
	<description>A beginners guide to classical music, by someone who switched at 23</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-14708</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-14708</guid>
		<description>You know, one day I might write a blog post about how I have suddenly discovered I like Rachmaninoff. however, I suspect that's gonna be a long time coming :)

I'm actually not a huge Mozart fan either...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, one day I might write a blog post about how I have suddenly discovered I like Rachmaninoff. however, I suspect that&#8217;s gonna be a long time coming <img src='http://classicalconvert.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually not a huge Mozart fan either&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zoltan</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-13106</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoltan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-13106</guid>
		<description>No worries Ben, we're all guilty: Did I mention that I don't listen to Mozart? ;)

Sibelius is good example of public opinion shift: a musical hero up into the 1950's (though, some detested him even then for his "conservatism"), then fell out of favor and he might be having a comeback now?

As for Rachmaninoff: You're right. Already in his lifetime some of his works weren't successful with the public or the critics (like the Third Symphony). Even today I read many times that the melodies and lush orchestration of the 2nd Symphony are "just too much". At first they overwhelm the listener, I agree, but if one listens more often, better yet with score, you might discover the wonderful polyphony and see that there is indeed depth to Rachmaninoff's music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries Ben, we&#8217;re all guilty: Did I mention that I don&#8217;t listen to Mozart? <img src='http://classicalconvert.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Sibelius is good example of public opinion shift: a musical hero up into the 1950&#8217;s (though, some detested him even then for his &#8220;conservatism&#8221;), then fell out of favor and he might be having a comeback now?</p>
<p>As for Rachmaninoff: You&#8217;re right. Already in his lifetime some of his works weren&#8217;t successful with the public or the critics (like the Third Symphony). Even today I read many times that the melodies and lush orchestration of the 2nd Symphony are &#8220;just too much&#8221;. At first they overwhelm the listener, I agree, but if one listens more often, better yet with score, you might discover the wonderful polyphony and see that there is indeed depth to Rachmaninoff&#8217;s music.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-12660</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-12660</guid>
		<description>Haha :)

Yeah, I'm guilty too. Although I (hope) I've learned to try and make it clear that it's just my opinion when I write about composers I dislike...

I think it's particularly interesting when the consensus manages to shift dramatically over time as well. Like with Rachmaninoff: wasn't he basically dismissed at first? I think it's only recently that critics have announced that he is an acceptable choice of composer, according to their inflated sense of judgment.

And as you point out, within classical music it's bad enough, but between genres it gets way nastier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha <img src='http://classicalconvert.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m guilty too. Although I (hope) I&#8217;ve learned to try and make it clear that it&#8217;s just my opinion when I write about composers I dislike&#8230;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s particularly interesting when the consensus manages to shift dramatically over time as well. Like with Rachmaninoff: wasn&#8217;t he basically dismissed at first? I think it&#8217;s only recently that critics have announced that he is an acceptable choice of composer, according to their inflated sense of judgment.</p>
<p>And as you point out, within classical music it&#8217;s bad enough, but between genres it gets way nastier.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoltan</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-12036</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoltan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-12036</guid>
		<description>What was that?! How can you not like Rachmaninoff, Ben?! :P

On a more serious note:
The whole snobism becomes even more tiresome when you listen to mulitple genres of music and than have to defend their "merit". Like, if you listen to and like film music: besides Korngold or Herrmann everything else is trash (even Shosty's film music is third-rate socialist propaganda!).

Or an even better example: the merits of rap music -- as I had the chance to witness such a discussion recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What was that?! How can you not like Rachmaninoff, Ben?! <img src='http://classicalconvert.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>On a more serious note:<br />
The whole snobism becomes even more tiresome when you listen to mulitple genres of music and than have to defend their &#8220;merit&#8221;. Like, if you listen to and like film music: besides Korngold or Herrmann everything else is trash (even Shosty&#8217;s film music is third-rate socialist propaganda!).</p>
<p>Or an even better example: the merits of rap music &#8212; as I had the chance to witness such a discussion recently.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-10966</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-10966</guid>
		<description>JonJ:

I'm going to poke around on Amazon and laugh at people arguing over CDs now. It's kind of crazy how defensive people get at defending their personal opinions, particularly with music and film tastes...


Yvonne:

Interesting point... it must be sort of frustrating writing program notes if you actually have negative opinions of a piece/composer and have to try to avoid letting them spill in. However, as we both attest to, I guess they sometimes don't do a such good job at avoiding that. Unfortunately a little hint of condescension about a piece/composer you like really fires up ones outrage. Which I guess leads back to my comment to JonJ up there about overreacting to other peoples opinions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JonJ:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to poke around on Amazon and laugh at people arguing over CDs now. It&#8217;s kind of crazy how defensive people get at defending their personal opinions, particularly with music and film tastes&#8230;</p>
<p>Yvonne:</p>
<p>Interesting point&#8230; it must be sort of frustrating writing program notes if you actually have negative opinions of a piece/composer and have to try to avoid letting them spill in. However, as we both attest to, I guess they sometimes don&#8217;t do a such good job at avoiding that. Unfortunately a little hint of condescension about a piece/composer you like really fires up ones outrage. Which I guess leads back to my comment to JonJ up there about overreacting to other peoples opinions&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-9807</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-9807</guid>
		<description>I'm always slightly outraged and very disappointed by liner notes that are dismissive about the composer in question. Liner notes (and program notes) are a very specific kind of writing and their role – well one of their key roles – is to provide advocacy and justification for the music on offer in the recording or concert. Not lying about the composer's reputation, but always being the voice of the advocate. After all, if the notes say it's not really worth playing what are the musicians doing playing it for us?!

And therein lies the very particular art of the liner note writer.

There's absolutely a place for criticism and measured scholarship and for lively debate about the value or otherwise of composers, but liner notes need the voice of the advocate to dominate.

PS. I &lt;i&gt;love&lt;/i&gt; Mendelssohn and will never tire of listening to his masterpieces. Yes, not all his works are masterpieces, but that's not the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always slightly outraged and very disappointed by liner notes that are dismissive about the composer in question. Liner notes (and program notes) are a very specific kind of writing and their role – well one of their key roles – is to provide advocacy and justification for the music on offer in the recording or concert. Not lying about the composer&#8217;s reputation, but always being the voice of the advocate. After all, if the notes say it&#8217;s not really worth playing what are the musicians doing playing it for us?!</p>
<p>And therein lies the very particular art of the liner note writer.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s absolutely a place for criticism and measured scholarship and for lively debate about the value or otherwise of composers, but liner notes need the voice of the advocate to dominate.</p>
<p>PS. I <i>love</i> Mendelssohn and will never tire of listening to his masterpieces. Yes, not all his works are masterpieces, but that&#8217;s not the point.</p>
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		<title>By: JonJ</title>
		<link>http://classicalconvert.com/2008/09/the-benefit-of-no-opinions/comment-page-1/#comment-9533</link>
		<dc:creator>JonJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicalconvert.com/?p=402#comment-9533</guid>
		<description>CM criticism which actually illuminates something for you about the music is worth paying attention to, but don't bother with the "top 10" or "top 100" lists. Most of them represent the consensus of CM fans over the decades and centuries (depending on when the composer lived, of course), but if your personal preferences are different, don't sweat it. You're not going to be given a test at the end of the course!

What is really amusing are the evaluations of performances the "fans" give, especially in the field of opera. The raging arguments on Amazon about this or that recording always leave me in stitches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CM criticism which actually illuminates something for you about the music is worth paying attention to, but don&#8217;t bother with the &#8220;top 10&#8243; or &#8220;top 100&#8243; lists. Most of them represent the consensus of CM fans over the decades and centuries (depending on when the composer lived, of course), but if your personal preferences are different, don&#8217;t sweat it. You&#8217;re not going to be given a test at the end of the course!</p>
<p>What is really amusing are the evaluations of performances the &#8220;fans&#8221; give, especially in the field of opera. The raging arguments on Amazon about this or that recording always leave me in stitches.</p>
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